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Mike Holt
Member
USA
2822 Posts |
 Posted - 11/10/2004 : 1:35:51 PM
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This fall Orvis announced a new product (for them) that is a floating butt section of leader material. Floating vs. sinking leaders and their tippet sections are a topic that has been discussed here at the shop a lot in the last month or so.
A lot of guys are making furled leaders and they are greasing them to make them float. Others are greasing the butts of braided leaders to get them to float. I’ve always tried to get mine to sink – just a little but to sink, nonetheless.
I especially don’t want my tippet to float. My theory being if it sinks just a bit it won’t pull my fly under and it will throw less of a shadow than it would if it were suspended in the surface film.
Orvis used to sell a commercial product called Mud and in England a form of chalk is used to dull leaders and degrease them. Oliver Edwards makes a point of stressing that you degrease your tippet sections. I often use Gehrke’s Xink. What do you guys think – float em or sink em?
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Bill Blake
Frequent Contributor
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 2:19:57 PM
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| George Gerhke recommended something similar only it was the other way around. He recommended dressing the first four inches of tippet with Gink and then the next four inches with xink. The Xinked section would sink and the Ginked section would lift completely above the water. The weight of the tippet on one end and the weight of the fly on the other made the ginked section bow up and lift out of the water. I tried it once and it worked pretty well, but it was a little too complicated for someone as impatient as I am. |
Edited by - Bill Blake on 11/10/2004 2:20:53 PM |
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Mike Holt
Member
USA
2822 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 2:27:57 PM
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| Neat idea - I've gotta try that. |
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Streamer
Big Fish in a Small Pond
USA
1980 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 7:09:54 PM
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| I've become obsessed with floating furled leaders...treating them, greasing them, searching for the Holy Grail of floatants. I see what you're saying about shadows cast on the river bed, but I think if the tippet section (the last 18" - 2') is sunk, then the fish won't see the shadow and will be fooled enough to strike. I just like seeing my leader on the water; it helps me locate the direction that the fly is drifting better in the face of poor eyesight, tiny flies, and inattention. |
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chris r
Frequent Contributor
174 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2004 : 9:52:20 PM
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Streamer
I have been thinking about the floating question also . I have been using Gink to float mine and it does a fair job however at the end of the day I do find that it does sink. Have you tried (don't laugh) silicone waterproofing that you use on your boots. I was wondering if you sprayed it on pre twisting if it would work well . Please let us know if you find the answer.
chris r |
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Streamer
Big Fish in a Small Pond
USA
1980 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 09:33:26 AM
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It's not a laughing matter, Chris.  I have tried that, but then I got worried about the effect the silicone might have on the fly line coating. What I've done recently (and have been chastised for here) is coat the threads with Watershed ($4 a bottle @ FFO) before spinning the threads and letting it cure for about a half hour. Then (again), after spinning up the legs, I coat each one with a pinch of Watershed between the thumb and forefinger. After furling the leader, I wipe away the excess with a (T-shirt) rag, which also helps to smooth out the twists along the length of the leader.
Watershed is essentially silicone, designed to permanently waterproof dry flies. It takes about 24 hours to fully cure. After tying a loop in each end of the leader, I insert the furling weight through one loop and let the leader hang for a day until the cure time passes. Then,I apply a first coat of floatant (GINK or the similar stuff from Orvis that Mike carries) and work it in until the leader no longer feels "greasy" to the touch. Let it stand in a warm, dry place for a few (4-8) hours and you're good to go. Sometimes, I won't have to re-grease a leader treated this way for 3 or 4 fishing trips.
 This is the point where my experiments have led me. Once the Watershed is cured (and cast a few times), the leader is supple (i.e., falls into a pile when dropped) and it gives an "opaque" effect to the threads. If you send me an e-mail with your address (or stop by in your driftboat if you see me in the river), I'll send you one to look over...
Streamer.
PS: In keeping with Mike's (or Oliver Edwards') advice earlier in the thread, don't grease the tippet or treat it with MUD*. |
Edited by - Streamer on 11/11/2004 09:39:43 AM |
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chris r
Frequent Contributor
174 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 6:21:51 PM
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Streamer
Check your email
chris r
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Streamer
Big Fish in a Small Pond
USA
1980 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 6:38:35 PM
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 Nope. Nada. Nothingness...
Mike said that he'd sent me some mail earlier, too, and I never got that, either. I can send mail out from the forum, but can't get mail in. Maybe it will work if you use this link: bobglenx@msn.com
Streamer |
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chris r
Frequent Contributor
174 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 10:49:37 PM
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Streamer
Check it 1 more time
chris r |
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Streamer
Big Fish in a Small Pond
USA
1980 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2004 : 08:59:50 AM
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 GOT IT!
Expect something in the mail in a day or so...it may be greasy and slimy, but it won't hurt you (much).
Streamer |
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Streamer
Big Fish in a Small Pond
USA
1980 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2004 : 8:50:42 PM
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It's in the mail, Chris.
Streamer |
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chris r
Frequent Contributor
174 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 1:43:26 PM
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Streamer
Thanks I'll be looking for it !
chris r |
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flytire
Frequent Contributor
372 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 8:03:11 PM
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Streamer,
Could "Scotchguard" be used to pretreat the threads prior to furling?
If you are using UNI thread for furling, arent the already treated with a wax like coating?
Norm
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Streamer
Big Fish in a Small Pond
USA
1980 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 9:26:19 PM
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Norm, you could be right on both accounts.
I never thought about Scotchguard. I suppose it would be about the same as any other silicone treatment (and it IS designed for cloth). I make my leaders in the house, so I need to be careful about spraying stuff (or else move out to the garage).
Unithread does already have a coating. It could be wax; however, it feels different than the hot-waxed thread that I buy for tying flies. Coating or not, it absorbs water when furled into a leader unless it's treated with floatant. I'm still searching for that one treatment with that special compound that makes the leader virtually unsinkable (and yes, I'll be trying Scotchguard in the future...thanks for the tip). 
Streamer |
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Kathy Scott
Frequent Contributor
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 08:07:55 AM
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Hi,
Claude Freaner from Tennessee or thereabouts told me that he always wants everything but the last 18 inches of tippet to sink when fishing the spooky natives in those clear mountain stream. Since he's the king of furled leaders and a real rocket scientist, I at least listened if I never remembered to try it for my self. Thanks, Mike, for another variation for next Spring. Now, if I'll just do it... I'm personally not enough of a trill seeker to try 4 inhes on, four off ;-)
Have you guys tried mucelin for floatant?
Kat |
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